Vintage 101: What Does Vintage Need?
Howdy folks! It's time yet again for another edition of Vintage 101! I'm your host, Joe Dyer, and this week we're getting existential and talking about the overall state of current Vintage and what Vintage needs. In addition to that we've got some Challenges to discuss.
Without further ado, let's dive right in!
What Does Vintage Need?
We've got a Banned and Restricted Announcement coming up on August 26th here, and while I do expect them to focus on formats like Modern and Legacy, I do expect Wizards to at least talk a little bit about Vintage. Vintage as a whole seems to be more managed from a community sentiment perspective, as the expected mission of the format is to allow players to play any card legal in the format to some capacity. I know there's always some chatter about how Wizards doesn't care much about Vintage, but it's always interesting to me to see what they have to say about the format in general, even if it's not much.
Lately as well, I've noticed that the number of active League players on Magic Online has been around 90-100 players overall at any given time. On average, this does feel like it's a bit lower than it normally is. This brings forth the conversation of "What does Vintage need?" to me. While it's true that the player base for Vintage has often been lower historically than other formats, and we're also in the midst of a season where Vintage is not currently a Premier Play format (and thus there's no Showcase Challenges), it does seem awkward that player base is somewhat declining a bit.
Realistically, I think the biggest and most important thing that Vintage needs is some further transparency from Wizards on how they feel the format is doing and what they expect out of it, and how they engage with the community in that fashion. I know this is a rough one because transparency is not often a strong suit of Wizards when it comes to format management philosophy, but I think this would go a long way to understanding how Wizards perceives cards like Urza's Saga, Lurrus of the Dream-Den, etc.
But let's dig into and see what things Vintage could realistically want or need.
More Reasons to Play Away from Certain Cards
Currently according to the data we have on hand via MTGGoldfish, Urza's Saga sits at around 51% of decks at an even 4 copies per deck played. Lurrus sits at 24% of decks, of course with only one copy being played. Of these, the most common egregious offender is Saga by far, especially considering that the top two played lands in the format are Strip Mine and Wasteland, cards that obviously get rid of Saga. While some might say the way to address this is to just restrict Saga, I think what Vintage needs more is reasons to not feel like you're forced to play these cards.
Wizards can do this by printing cards that are outside of what these cards do and approach the format in other ways, and I mean not printing more cards like Psychic Frog which work directly in conjunction with Saga. To do this however, I think Wizards likely needs to push a little these counter strategies, but having more options that possibly reduce the share of Saga in general seems like an intriguing proposition. I expected something like that to come with Modern Horizons 3, but nothing like that materialized.
Lurrus on the other hand, is just simply having more reasons to play permanents at mana value three or above. This is harder, in my opinion, as they keep printing threats and cards below three mana value that work so well with Lurrus, cards like Psychic Frog and Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student. That's pretty difficult to beat, especially when the current best above three mana value permanent is Bolas's Citadel. I've wracked my brain numerous times on how to address this, but it's a tough cookie to crack overall.
More Reasons to Innovate
One of the bigger issues I feel with current Vintage is that there isn't much incentive in the format to innovate deeply. There's a reason I am utterly thankful for content creators like Justin Gennari, who continue to push the limits of things the format can do and showcase true innovation, but that innovation doesn't seem to happen in Vintage all that much.
This ties more into my first section a bit, as having to play or the perceived notion of having to play specific cards and decks in the format plays into this a lot. Why are you playing X when you need to be playing Y? This makes this rough. For this, just like in the first section, we just need more reasons to do so. More cards printed and more interactions with specific cards that drive players who enjoy brewing and innovating to do just that. I like Modern Horizons 3 for that aspect, because it did introduce some interesting cards like Ocelot Pride and Guide of Souls that have a unique interaction together, making for some powerful gameplay.
I'd love to see more ways to potentially utilize cards like Fastbond, as that card doesn't see nearly enough innovating overall. There's plenty to consider here, but having more reasons to innovate would be very helpful for Vintage going into the future.
More Reasons to Play Vintage both Online and in Paper
This is a rough item to consider, because it does tie back to the fact that Leagues seem to be down in attendance overall. Vintage already is a small community in general, so having more reasons to play in either online or paper events can help the format ostensibly grow a little better.
In regards to online events, finding more ways to tie Vintage into the overall infrastructure of Magic Online is pretty key to this. I think Daybreak has done a great job of continually providing events overall, and the fact that Vintage has 4 Challenges a week is fantastic. Finding more ways to keep pushing that ability to use Vintage as a platform to qualify for bigger events, even having bigger Vintage events in general on the platform overall helps this aspect of things.
For paper, this gets a bit rougher, I feel. If you want to have a paper Vintage event, odds are that proxies are involved and you are unsanctioned. There's generally only the one big sanctioned set of events every year and that's Eternal Weekend. What would help the proxy events I feel is gravitating more towards more open policies on the number of proxies allowed. There was a time when 15 proxy Vintage really worked for a good majority of events, but I don't think that works that well anymore. Allowing more or doing things like "Reserved List cards proxy only" allows more people to play, which allows more people to experience the format and can only be good for it in the long run.
Continued Better Public Perception
This is an interesting one. If you were to go to your LGS and ask a crowd of players there what their thoughts on Vintage is, odds are you will get a variety of answers but for the most part a good majority of those answers dial into the idea that Vintage is the place to do broken things and games are usually over on Turn 1. That public perception is huge and leads to a lot of common misconceptions about the format and a lot of misinformation in general. This one is ostensibly one of the hardest to combat in general, because how do you eventually sway public perception of something that's been around for so long?
Personally, one of the best tools I would like to see used for this is getting back the concept of the Vintage Super League. For those unaware, VSL was similar to the MTGO Masters things going on now where players played Vintage in a League format that was streamed to a large audience. It was a really solid way of showcasing the format for players who may never have considered to pick up the format or even begin to show interest in it. It helped greatly in shaping more public perception of Vintage as a whole and was great for dispelling many of the common misconceptions about the format.
Honestly, for me, it would be one of the biggest driving pieces of content that I would love to see back because of how well it helped explain the core concepts of Vintage to those unaware or seeking that information. Not only that, utilizing it as a gateway to provide reasons to play more Vintage on Magic Online is a solid tie-in to my last section.
Moving Forward
I think Vintage is still one of the most fun formats I've ever played. It's a format I really enjoy, and even when things are absolutely on fire I can still always find some fun. But I do think Vintage would benefit from some additional things, and hopefully maybe someday some of this could be a reality.
What do you think Vintage needs? Let me know in the comments below.
Vintage Challenge 32 8/8
The first Challenge event of the week was the Thursday night event. This event had 51 players in it thanks to the data collected by the Vintage Streamer's Discord.
You can find the Top 32 decklists for this event here and the data sheet here.
Jewel Shops and BUG were very popular but both had some strange win rates despite both having some good finishes. Lurrus Saga looked good as did Lurrus DRS.
Let's take a look at the Top 8.
| Deck Name | Placing | MTGO Username |
|---|---|---|
| PO | 1st | Fnoop |
| Lurrus DRS | 2nd | McWinSauce |
| BUG | 3rd | Montolio |
| Lurrus Saga | 4th | Mmfood |
| Jewel Shops | 5th | morenoHARDCORE |
| BUG | 6th | duke12 |
| Jewel Shops | 7th | Arca_de_Karn |
| Initiative | 8th | ElfKid |
Good spread of BUG, Lurrus, and Jewel. At the end of the event, it was good old-fashioned PO that won.
Definitely just an old-fashioned Saga PO list here. Pretty cool stuff. I like the Urza here.
In Second Place we had Lurrus DRS.
The Frog continues to be a huge part of this format. It's definitely one of the best threats printed in a long time, and that's saying a lot.
At the bottom of the Top 8 we had Initiative.
I like the sideboard Wrath of the Skies here. That seems like a stronger card than people might think it is.
Vintage Challenge 32 8/9
The second Challenge event of the weekend was the Friday night event. This event had 37 players in it thanks to the data collected by the Vintage Streamer's Discord.
You can find the Top 32 decklists for this event here and the data sheet here.
Jewel and Lurrus Saga both were very popular. Jewel had slightly less than 50% despite some good finishes, while Lurrus looked good. Doomsday looked very good, as did BUG.
Let's take a look at the Top 8.
| Deck Name | Placing | MTGO Username |
|---|---|---|
| Lurrus Saga | 1st | Mogged |
| BUG | 2nd | Montolio |
| Doomsday | 3rd | revenantkioku |
| BUG | 4th | Tunaktunak |
| Initiative | 5th | xDingusKhan |
| Jewel Shops | 6th | _Chamytinho_ |
| Jewel Shops | 7th | Jumba |
| Lurrus Saga | 8th | Add1ct3d |
Half the Top 8 was Lurrus and Jewel. At the end of the event it was Lurrus that won.
Tamiyo is pretty neat in these lists. I think it's possibly pretty good being able to continually generate Clues, and if it dies you can get it back with Lurrus.
In Second Place we had BUG.
Frog seems great here as well. Also enjoying seeing at least a few copies of Consign to Memory in the 75. That card is extremely slick and flexible in a lot of ways.
Also in this Top 8 we had Doomsday.
Into the Flood Maw is a sweet card here. What a neat piece of tech. Being able to return any nonland permanent for U for the low low cost of gifting a Fish, when Doomsday can just win on the spot after the fact is really cool.
Vintage Challenge 32 8/10
The third Challenge event of the weekend was the mid afternoon Saturday event. This event had 47 players in it thanks to the data collected by the Vintage Streamer's Discord.
You can find the Top 32 decklists for this event here and the data sheet here.
Jewel Shops was very popular but it had a less than 50% win rate again with having good finishes regardless. Initiative was right on the middle, and Lurrus looked good. Oath also looked good, while both Doomsday and BUG did poorly.
Let's take a look at the Top 8.
| Deck Name | Placing | MTGO Username |
|---|---|---|
| Turbo Vault Key | 1st | Artie_Bucco_Jr |
| Jewel Shops | 2nd | Arca_de_Karn |
| Oath | 3rd | etoustar |
| Initiative Tinker | 4th | Johnni |
| Dredge | 5th | Lord_Beerus |
| Oath | 6th | Devouring Commander |
| Jewel Shops | 7th | Jumba |
| Lurrus Saga | 8th | ARCII |
Actually a pretty interesting Top 8 here. At the end of the event it was Turbo Vault Key that won.
I like this list. It seems quite fun and interesting to play. Glass Casket is a sweet card in the sideboard.
In Second Place we had Jewel Shops.
Fairly stock looking list overall in this variant. There's no frills but there doesn't really need to be.
Also in this Top 8 is Oath.
Solid looking list here. I do like the addition of Thoughtseize to these decks. Having a way to punch through disruption or a Force effect is great.
Vintage Challenge 32 8/11
The final Challenge of the event was the early morning Sunday event. This event had 44 players in it thanks to the data collected by the Vintage Streamer's Discord.
You can find the Top 32 decklists for this event here and the data sheet here.
Lurrus Saga was very popular and looked very good. Jewel also looked great, as did Initiative.
Let's take a look at the Top 8.
| Deck Name | Placing | MTGO Username |
|---|---|---|
| BUG | 1st | scalo94 |
| Lurrus Saga | 2nd | Mogged |
| Dredge | 3rd | GigaChadSigmaMale |
| Jewel Shops | 4th | Jumba |
| Doomsday | 5th | discoverN |
| Lurrus Saga | 6th | Bezerra_da_Silva |
| Initiative Tinker | 7th | TrueHero |
| Lurrus Saga | 8th | _Joseba_ |
Quite a bit of Lurrus here. At the end of the event though it was BUG that won.
Nice to see a Leovold here. I do enjoy that card quite a bit.
In Second Place is Lurrus Saga.
Very straightforward list here. Maindeck four Vexing Bauble is pretty wild, but not unexpected.
Also in this Top 8 we had Dredge.
Interesting to see Bridge from Below and Cabal Therapy back out of the deck again. Getting to have the one main deck Strip Mine is nice.
Around the Web
- FiretruckModo has a video on Prison Shops. Check it out here.
- Montolio has a video on BUG from the Challenge. Check it out here.
- Justin Gennari has a few videos for us:
- Revenantkioku has an article on the Top 50 Vintage Creatures and How Best to Kill Them. Check it out here.
The Spice Corner
SHOW AND TELL.
Wrapping Up
That's all the time we have this week folks! Thanks for your continued support of the column and join me next week as we continue our journey into Vintage!
As always you can reach me at my Link Tree! In addition you can always reach me on the MTGGoldfish Discord Server and the Vintage Streamers Discord.
Until next time!
